Interview with Josefine Schaefer on Accessibility in the CMS Storyblok

This is the transcript of the German language podcast. It was optimized with ChatGPT. All errors and inaccuracies are mine. I'm talking to Josefine Schaefer about working as an accessibility specialist for the CMS Storyblok. The main topic is how accessibility can be anchored within a company.

Domingos: Welcome to a new episode of our podcast on digital accessibility! Today I have another exciting guest: Josefine Schaefer. Josefine has been active in the field of digital accessibility for a long time. But she'll tell you about it herself in a moment. First of all, thank you very much, Josefine, for taking the time. Please introduce yourself briefly to our listeners.

About Josefine

Josefine: Thank you very much for letting me be here! I was very happy about the invitation. I'm Josefine and I live in Hamburg. I work there as an accessibility engineering expert at a company called Storyblok. This is a – here comes a bit of Denglisch – "headless content management system". Since the beginning of the year I have been working on making our product as accessible as possible. That's just me.

Domingos: But you don't originally come from the IT sector, do you? I think you took a different path.

Josefine: Yes, exactly, that's right! I originally studied languages ​​and communication and also worked in this field for a while. I always enjoyed it a lot and I'm still a big fan of linguistics at heart. After my time at a startup that unfortunately went bankrupt, about six years ago I thought about how I could reposition myself professionally. At the time I thought – somewhat naively from today's perspective – that a job in the tech industry would be particularly secure. So I did a bootcamp to learn frontend development and that's how I got into the IT world.

After a few years, I switched to developer relations, which is a great combination of development and communication. Since the beginning of this year, I've been concentrating entirely on accessibility, which has been with me since I entered the tech industry. Now I can officially devote myself to this important topic with full energy.

Domingos: Super exciting! How did you get into digital accessibility?

Josefine: My very first job was at a large digital agency here in Hamburg. At the time, we were working for a large automotive customer who wanted to expand into the Canadian market. To do this, we had to comply with certain regulations regarding accessibility. This was a completely new topic for both the customer and my colleagues.

My team included highly experienced developers with many years of professional experience, but hardly anyone had dealt with accessibility before. This was a great opportunity for me: I was fresh out of bootcamp and had a lot to learn anyway. So I thought to myself, why not learn something that would not only help me, but also support my team and create real added value?

This is how I got into the topic - together with a few colleagues. We were lucky enough to have a great mentor who is very active in the accessibility community. Together we took on the responsibility of implementing the requirements - not alone, of course, but it showed me how important and exciting this topic is.

I quickly realized that I found accessibility to be something useful. Especially in the agency context, where questions like "How can we sell more?" are often asked, I was looking for something that had more meaning. Accessibility gave me that: a task where I feel like I'm adding real value.

Domingos: How did you get to grips with the topic back then? Did you do it autodidactically, read literature, attend courses - or how did you go about it?

Josefine: A bit of everything, I would say. For example, there are introductory courses from Google that give a good overview of what digital accessibility means. We initially based ourselves on that. Then we went about it very specifically: for example, when we were working on a carousel, a button or a checkbox, we specifically researched what requirements these elements had to meet.

A big advantage was that we later had experienced colleagues like Bea on the team. She already had a lot of expertise and helped us enormously. We were also lucky enough to work with testers who themselves have disabilities. We were able to learn an incredible amount from them - that was really enriching.

About Storyblok

Domingos: Let's talk about Storyblok. You mentioned it briefly earlier: It's a "headless CMS". Can you briefly explain to us what that means and which target group your content management system appeals to?

Josefine: Mhm, I hope I'm explaining this correctly now - I haven't had direct customer contact for a long time. Storyblok, for example, is comparable to WordPress, a classic content management system (CMS). Such systems enable different employees to work together on a website, an online shop or a digital product. They can enter content via an interface - often without any technical know-how.

WordPress is the classic that many people know. In the CMS industry, however, there are two major approaches:

  • Classic CMS: Here, everything is bundled in one system. There are ready-made visual layouts, many tools are already integrated, and some decisions have already been made for the users.
  • Headless CMS: In contrast, with a "headless" CMS, the frontend - i.e. the presentation of the content - is decoupled from the rest of the system. It is called "headless" because the "head" that normally represents the frontend is missing. This allows developers to freely decide which technologies (tech stack) they use, which tools they want to integrate, and what they may want to leave out. This flexibility makes work more agile and adaptable.

This independence is the core of what makes a headless CMS.

You could actually use Storyblok for a personal website or a hobby project. However, it unfolds its full potential especially when several people - often from different disciplines - work on a project. For example, when there are different requirements from content editors, developers and other participants. Then a "headless" CMS makes more sense.

Our customers range from large enterprise companies to classic medium-sized companies. Storyblok's flexibility makes it possible to address a very broad target group, so there is no typical customer - it is quite diverse.

Perhaps one more additional point: Our two founders were originally developers themselves. They asked themselves how to develop a content management system that better meets the needs of developers and offers more flexibility. That's how Storyblok was ultimately created. This developer-friendliness is a big advantage of our product.

Domingos: I also saw on the website that Storyblok relies heavily on accessibility not only in the frontend but also in the backend - i.e. where the content is created and edited. How did the company come to deal with this topic so intensively? Unfortunately, that's not the norm.

Josefine: Yes, that's true. I have long been committed to making us more concerned with accessibility - or let's say I have repeatedly brought it up. Before that, I was in the position of a developer relations engineer and talked a lot about accessibility regardless of my role. Together with a few colleagues, we repeatedly emphasized how great it would be if we could create an accessible user interface as a CMS.

There were a few "champions" in the company early on who were committed to this. I kept pushing the issue and said: "Hey, these regulations are coming - this will definitely be important for our customers too." Little by little it became clear that we needed a position to drive this issue forward.

I wouldn't say that this is a unique selling point, but accessibility is not yet widespread among CMS providers. As far as I know, none of our competitors are completely accessible. I was able to convince them with this argument, and that's how my position was created. Of course, the upcoming legislation in the EU also played an important role in this. Our goal is to address the largest possible target group and offer inclusive solutions.

Implementation of accessibility

Domingos: How have you now integrated the topic into the team? You are probably the main person responsible for coordinating the whole thing. How do you ensure that accessibility is implemented in the various roles and areas of responsibility of the team?

Josefine: It is still an ongoing process and I am learning something new every day. The first thing we did was to carry out an audit of the entire product and our design system. It quickly became clear that the product is not yet accessible in many places and that there is a lot of room for improvement. At the same time, we also saw that we can do a lot with individual components.

I then started to create tickets and prioritize them: Which components do we use most often? Where can we make a big difference with comparatively little effort? I spoke to many colleagues, did some persuasive work and finally brought a few developers on board with whom we implemented the first improvements.

Now we're really going through it step by step, component by component. That takes time, especially with a large legacy project, and of course brings with it some complications. But we've already reached a few important milestones.

Our processes are still relatively new and are constantly evolving. For example, I work closely with our UX team to be involved in new designs at an early stage. I also check in on code reviews and keep in close contact with the team to make sure we can implement our requirements for accessible code. This is how we try to make our product more accessible step by step.

Domingos:: Would you say that personal contact with people is particularly important when it comes to accessibility? So that you don't just communicate via Jira tickets, but really seek direct exchange to make people aware of it? Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Josefine:: Yes, absolutely! I would even say that from my perspective, this is one of the most important things. We want... Where do you start? I think many of our team reacted very positively to this and were happy that the topic is now receiving more attention and that there are perhaps even resources to develop further. But of course it is also an additional task that you have to think about. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Everyday life is already stressful: tickets have to be processed, there is time pressure from management or the boss. I don't necessarily want to call it a burden, but for each individual it is simply another issue that has to be taken into account. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

That's why I was initially worried that some people might be frustrated if certain things were emphasized too much. That's exactly why, in my view, it is so important to repeatedly emphasize the basic idea: Why are we doing this? What are the advantages? And at the same time to encourage exchange. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Precisely because we work completely remotely, I think personal contact is all the more important. When you don't have a face to face and only know your colleagues from afar, it is often easier to become frustrated. Personal contact and regular exchange are therefore essential. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Domingos:: How do you personally keep up to date with the topic of digital accessibility? Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Josefine:: I now follow a lot of people from this community on LinkedIn and Twitter - or X, as it is now called - in order to get as many perspectives and inputs as possible. I have also subscribed to various newsletters, am active in Slack groups and also use podcasts. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

I particularly like the newsletters because I often don't manage to check out all the relevant blogs regularly. They give me a compact overview: What has just been published? What is the community talking about? And podcasts are also a great format for further education. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Domingos: Thank you very much! Finally, one last question: How can people follow you personally? You are also quite active on YouTube and LinkedIn. What is your preferred channel? Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Josefine: Exactly, LinkedIn is actually the easiest way. I am easy to reach there and I am always happy to receive feedback or messages. I also have a podcast called "S Anni" with two friends. We try to create a safe space for women, non-binary people and actually everyone in the tech community. We meet every two weeks and talk about different topics. The podcast can be found mainly on YouTube under "S Anni". These are the main channels through which you can reach me. Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

Domingos: Great, thanks for the interview! Here is the optimized version of your transcript:

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