Interview with Alide von Bornhaupt on Digital Accessibility and Neurodiversity

This is the transcript of a German language podcast. I'm talking with UX expert Alide Von Bornhaupt about neurodiversity and digital accessibility. The transcript was optimized using AI. Any inaccuracies and errors are my responsibility

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Domingos: Welcome to a new podcast about digital accessibility. Today I have another exciting guest with me: Alide von Bonn Haupt. She's about to introduce herself. We'll be talking about digital accessibility for neurodiverse people. First of all, thank you very much, Alide, for taking the time to do the podcast.

Alide: Yes, thank you very much for the invitation. I'm very happy to be here.

Domingos: With pleasure. Please introduce yourself to our listeners.

About Alide

Alide: With pleasure. So, I'm currently sitting in Nuremberg – I always think it's nice to hear where someone is speaking from. I've been self-employed for over ten years, specializing in UX and product development. My focus is on digital inclusion and equality. I'm very focused on the seven main dimensions of diversity because I see them as a major lever for making a difference in society.

Since we now conduct our everyday lives largely digitally and spend a lot of time in digital space, this space offers a great opportunity to exert social influence. When a group is seen and considered, it is also perceived and can participate more effectively in social life.

Domingos: Thank you. How did you come to focus specifically on the topic of digital inclusion and neurodiversity?

Alide: I'm neurodivergent myself—I think that's the simplest answer. Additionally, as a person who is perceived as female, I experienced the problem that research at the time I received my diagnosis was still very stereotypical and portrayed this as such. I received my very first diagnosis in the 1990s.

This led me to repeatedly read specialist literature and studies. I noticed that there is a huge gap between what society knows and what is currently being scientifically researched. Medicine operates in between – and I thought: "This has to be communicated somehow."

At the same time, I had my professional expertise from product development. I noticed that accessibility is actually constantly being implemented or strived for, but that neurodiversity is often only referred to under the umbrella term "cognitive impairments." There is so much diversity behind it that, in my opinion, it should be considered separately.

That's how I started giving lectures on it, giving workshops, and explicitly incorporating my expertise into my work.

What is neurodiversity

Domingos: What do you understand by neurodiversity? I haven't found a uniform definition.

Alide: Thank you for asking so openly. I basically understand neurodiversity to mean all people, because every person has a unique brain structure. Every brain structure is slightly different, and it is precisely these differences that create diversity. In other words, every person is different, and accordingly, there are different brain structures.

This leads to two more terms that I would like to briefly explain: "neurotypical" and "neurodivergent." I sometimes find these terms difficult because they also convey a certain "othering"—a feeling that one is "normal" and the other "deviant." In the autistic community, the term "allistic" is sometimes used, which I find more appropriate because there are simply different brains, with no one considered the norm.

Neurodivergent structures include, for example, autism, ADHD, and epilepsy. Our society, our structures, our thinking, and our logic are designed for certain neural patterns—other structures are simply not taken into account. I call this view allistic to emphasize that there is no judgment, just different ways of functioning.

I hope this makes it a little clearer.

Domingos: Absolutely. Would you say there are problems with average perception—that is, with things that some people don't even perceive as distracting? For example, animations, auto-playing videos, or moving advertisements. Some people can simply ignore them, while others—especially neurodivergent people—have more difficulty tuning out such elements.

Alide: Yes, exactly. A good analogy for this is asking a fish to climb a tree. At first glance, you might think, "Yeah, why not?"—but a fish lives in water, not on land. It's the same with people: You make demands that are completely out of step with their lifestyle or abilities, and then you wonder why they have difficulty with them.

In accessibility work, I often use the "spoon theory" to illustrate this: Every person has a limited amount of energy—a certain "supply of spoons." Depending on the interactions or tasks required of a person, it can be very difficult for neurodivergent people to consume content that is casual and effortless for others. Afterward, they are exhausted and need a break.

The goal should be for everyone to be able to interact as fluidly and equally as possible. Therefore, it is important to consider different needs and reduce barriers as much as possible.

Consider Neurodiversity

Domingos: Do you develop products yourself or are you involved in their development? What is your approach when you want to pay particular attention to the topic of neurodiversity?

Alide: I work with different approaches. On the one hand, I am part of the Incluthon team and the Inclutest. testing team, and I also work independently. So these are three different areas.

At Incluthon, we conduct workshops, trainings, and testing. We support companies together with subject matter experts who are themselves affected and demonstrate live how software feels for those affected. This allows us to convey how digital products are perceived in a highly emotional and empathetic way.

The Inclutest team has a testing pool that includes neuroinclusive individuals. Here, we can demonstrate live: "I'm stuck at this point" or "This is very stressful for me" – while simultaneously highlighting which improvements would be helpful.

I also work independently on training courses that directly influence implementation. For example, when designing software, I ensure that certain standards are adhered to. For example, during a form process, I communicate early on which documents should be prepared beforehand. This way, the person doesn't have to run around the room after each step to search for documents or log back in if the session is logged out. I ensure that the structure and processing of the data are inclusive and user-friendly to reduce barriers.

Domingos: You're seeing more and more recommendations and design systems that specifically address the topic of neurodiversity. Have you ever explored this design systems yourself and do you have any feedback? Do you have an opinion on it, is it positive or negative?

Alide: I'm always happy when I see people engaging with this topic, because it's incredibly important. The challenge lies in this: If you know a neurodivergent person, you know exactly one – because we're talking about spectra here. Often, a person not only exhibits one neurodivergence, but is also marginalized in multiple ways. Representing this in a design system is, of course, very complex. A "one-size-fits-all" approach doesn't work here, and a design system that perfectly implements everything doesn't currently exist.

However, it's very important to recognize different needs and consider them as much as possible. For example, people with ADHD often like stimulation, such as animations, movement, or audiovisual content. At the same time, autistic people can easily become overstimulated by this. People with epilepsy or Tourette's syndrome could even be triggered by it.

So there are many contradictions, and it doesn't mean that all people with autism are automatically overstimulated—there are differences here, too. That's why it's very difficult to say in general: "If you do this, you'll do it right for everyone."

Domingos: Are there any tips you would generally give to people who are interested in the topic and want to consider it?

Alide: Yes, of course. In general, you can take a very structured approach. I work by first looking at the relevant standards—for example, the EU standard 301 549 or the WCAG. How these are implemented is, of course, partly a matter of interpretation.

Then I check how the structure is set up: Is it repetitive? Can you quickly orient yourself, or do you have to reorient yourself frequently? The latter can be very tiring. I also check whether there are different ways to consume the content.

One example is the screen reader: Some people with autism prefer to use it because visual content is too demanding for them. Others, on the other hand, don't want to hear, but prefer to use subtitles. So it's always about creating flexible access so that different needs are met.

There are also people who say: "I don't really want to listen to or watch videos; it's too demanding for me." Such needs are, of course, always worth considering. When dealing with accessibility, you generally know this – but especially with neurodivergent people, it's important to understand why these needs exist.

In our workshops, participants learn exactly this: to engage in direct dialogue with those affected, to understand how certain requirements feel and why they are relevant. Early testing is crucial here. It's not just about the technical implementation, but also about mindset and reflection. This way, you realize that people aren't just "making a fuss" or being picky, but have real needs that, if ignored, can drain energy and lead to exclusion.

Diversity is valuable: It brings in many perspectives, promotes exchange, and can advance society. To develop new ideas and work together inclusively, we must accept that people have different needs. This isn't a problem, but a crucial point for shared, inclusive interaction.

Alide's Channels

Domingos: That's a good closing remark. Where can people follow you personally if they're further interested in the topic?

Alide: The best place to start is on LinkedIn. I'm currently revising my website, alidevonbornhaupt.com is my website. It's possible that by the time you listen to the podcast, it's already finished. But I'm definitely very active on LinkedIn, too. So you can definitely find me there.

Domingos: Okay, thank you. I'll put that in the show notes. Yes, thank you for the informative conversation,

Alide: Thanks for the invitation.

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